Healing While Black and White, Part III: Scaling the Next Story
As a continuation of the Healing While Black and White series, we are sharing the third part of a moving conversation between two women—one black, and one white. Learn more about the participants, Courtney Bell and Angela Bond, in Part I of their conversation, We Are Spirits in Bodies, and Part II, Writing the Next Story.
This interview was not scripted or rehearsed. We provide excerpts of the transcript as a tool for organizations and teams to use as a window and mirror into more relationships and interactions. Honoring their wishes, we encourage readers to look at this relationship as a case study of possibility.
Parts of this interview have been edited or condensed for clarity.
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Scaling the Next Story
Caroline: What did you have to leave behind to get to where you are now?
Courtney: I had to leave behind a bit of what Mom was trying to protect me from when I was younger, which is this ulterior motive typical of... She didn't blanket everybody, but it's like, "Typically, white people, there is some type of ulterior motive, and ultimately they're never going to have your best interest at heart. There's going to be something at the root of it." I think I had to leave that behind. I think I was capable of leaving it behind because Angela was willing to do maybe a little bit more of the heavy lifting at moments, again, understanding her whiteness and understanding what I might be holding. So I think that's probably the main thing. If mine and Angela's friendship ends, it's not because I'm Black and she's white. Our friendship could end because maybe we have some argument we can't get over—which, I still think we could get over that—but it would end because of that [argument], but it won't be because of race.
Angela: When you said that, the first thing that came to my mind was the intent versus impact and really recognizing that the intent of things does not always translate to the impact that it might have. So being willing to listen and lean into moments of feedback or hard conversations and learn that the intent you wanted to have doesn't always translate to the same impact and apologizing, learning, and going from there. There's something in there with intent and impact and leaving behind just, "Well, that wasn't my intent." That's not enough if harm was caused.
Caroline: So what's next? Tell me what recommendations or advice you would have for anyone watching or reading this.
Courtney: Well, one, I would say as a Black woman, the advice I have is that you cannot do this work alone. It was not meant for us to do this work alone. We are not capable of carrying this work on our own. We will die if we continue to carry this work on our own. We are dying because we continue to carry this work on our own. So I guess my push would be to just relinquish that this is solely on our shoulders, because it's not. I'm not saying, "Go out and find a white friend." I mean, that's not my solution, but it is... I think once you unload it and say, "This is not something I can carry on my own," and you can say that to whoever is in your space, then you open the universe for someone who's willing to partner. They'll find you, but first you have to be willing to relinquish it. I don't know if that's to your leadership team or your boss, that hard conversation that you don't want to have because you want to feel like you can get it done. I think it's first saying that, like, "I am not capable of carrying this on my own, and it is not in my best interest or the organization's interest to carry this on my own."
Caroline: And I shouldn't have to.
Courtney: And I shouldn't have to. I know that's something hard for us to say, so at least getting that one conversation off your shoulders will open you up to the resources coming, which is something I learned from you, Caroline. The resources will come. Stop worrying about that part. Have the tough conversation, and then things will fall in place.
Caroline: It almost is like that's a part of the identity that we have to also let go, like I don't have to do all of this. All of this does not have to be on my back. It will break my back if it's all on my back. But if we're all carrying part of it, we can go farther together. Angela, talk to us. Next steps, advice, what do you think?
Angela: I agree with what you're both talking about, and I think as a white leader in Black spaces, prioritize building relationships and listening because you haven't experienced racism and the impact. So build relationships, listen, and partner so that your Black colleagues are not shouldering the burden of dismantling white supremacy culture in your organization, or feeling like they have to be the person who calls out racism or inequities. Build relationships and take responsibility to carry that weight. It's our job.
Courtney: And, Angela, you did that specifically. I remember there was a moment where we were doing staffing model adjustments and we were looking at our org structure, and all the Black women on our team were saying, "We have to hold because we don't have the funding. We need to hold on hiring for that position, and we'll just figure out how to do it." Where white voices have to step in, too, is when they see us doing that, and saying, "You shouldn't." So Angela in this space said, "I see that there are three senior leaders on our team who are saying that instead of us trying to figure out how to get additional support, that you're going to take on the work because we don't know where we can get the funding." She said, "That's three Black women who are taking on additional work, and you shouldn't have to do that."
Courtney: So in spaces, it's like showing us that you care by saying, "Hey, I'm going to protect you from yourself. No. We either don't do the work or we add the position, but you can't take on more." So I think, even in those spaces, she's said that, and that's like, "Oh, gosh." I think we even are surprised, too, because it's like, "Oh, God, a white person said that we shouldn't take on more work." It's like those small things are huge, so I think that's the other thing I would add, too, that I've seen Angela do, that it's just loving and caring, like, "Oh, you care that I don't work till midnight. Thanks. Appreciate that." That's what a mom or a friend... A mom or a friend says, "You can't work till midnight. You need to rest." So it's like, "Oh, it's a coworker just said that to me, but they're a friend" So, anyway, that's where I've always appreciated Angela, too.
Caroline: Thank y'all so much for sharing your story, sharing your insights with me and with us. It was a true blessing to be in community with you, and thank you, thank you, thank you.
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