Healing While Black and White, Part II: Writing the Next Story

“Oh, this is not just about work.” The proliferation of race and equity training in the workplace has created the opportunity to see the lines that govern our private lives in public. But when the commitment to equity work is not just about professional development but getting better at the personal job of becoming a better human, the relationship between the powerful and the powerless holds the greatest potential for change. This is the foundation of a love ethic.

Evidence of anti-blackness is displayed as humans of different hues, approach different lines around the world seeking refuge, with very different outcomes. The need for us to emerge as better humans is not just an American need, it's a critical need of the world. For the work to become the work of generations, transcending space and time, it must leave the public spaces of the workplaces and schools and become the ethos of private life. When this happens, we have the chance to write the Next Story.

As a continuation of the Healing While Black and White series, we are sharing the second part of a moving conversation between two women—one black, and one white. Learn more about the participants, Courtney Bell and Angela Bond, in Part I of their conversation, We Are Spirits in Bodies, here.

This interview was not scripted or rehearsed. We provide excerpts of the transcript as a tool for organizations and teams to use as a window and mirror into more relationships and interactions. Honoring their wishes, we encourage readers to look at this relationship as a case study of possibility.

Parts of this interview have been edited or condensed for clarity.

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Part 2: Writing the Next Story

Courtney: It's the work, but it's not just the work. Oh, you want to be an anti-racist. Oh, you want to raise like anti-racist babies." It's like, "Oh, this is a part of your life," and so then that makes me take down some of those walls that I have up because you're not just saying, “This is to get results.” You really want to help change the world. That's us all changing in our personal lives, not just work. So, for me personally, that helped our relationship start to probably get even closer. It's because I was connecting to, "Oh, this is not just about the work."

Caroline: That might be the most-

Angela: Love you, Courtney.

Caroline: ... eloquent way to this idea of interdependence. Oh, your humanity is linked to mine, your liberation. We are in this together. It's not just about professional performance. It's not just about what the end of the test scores look like. That's not why we're doing it. I literally want to be a better human. I need you in a relationship with me to be a better human, not dependent, but in a relationship. So I just want to note and just make visible, to have a Black woman and a white woman working in the South, having a conversation like this, this in and of itself is revolutionary, right? I mean, just in talking with ease, being vulnerable with emotion, I would love for you all to talk about how you got here.

Courtney: One thing we think might have helped us is that we went through a difficult situation together, with a person that we worked with. It was like we were just both struggling and having a hard time in different ways, and so we connected around this common ground. We found common ground where it doesn't matter what race you are; gender; what’s going on in your life. We were both struggling, and so then we started to have more personal conversations around the struggle, and then we started to take it outside of work… dinners and lunches after work and more conversations throughout the day around the struggle.

Courtney: Then, anytime you're connecting around the struggle, how are you not going to talk about your personal life? How am I not going to say that I'm going out on a date or she's thinking about getting married. Then it just started to flow over.

Angela: We had worked together maybe for two years at that point, and we were on the same team. She was leading HR. I was leading recruitment. So we interacted often because our work was super interconnected. But when we were going through this really challenging time with a colleague. Something just popped off, and I was like, "That was crazy,” and I looked over to Courtney and I was like, "Did you think that was crazy, too?" I just kind of had to rip the bandaid off, and she was like, "Absolutely."

Courtney: I forgot about that, Angela.

Angela: Remember that little room that we used to have back in our office, and I was like, "Get in the room," because I was like, "I can't keep holding this. Am I being gaslit right now? I felt like I was in a different universe." So I needed to know if she was observing the same thing, and I think I knew she would be a safe space because I knew she was very committed to our mission and the work. She was like, "Oh, yes, this is not good." That bonded us. We were able to lean on one another and navigate through that challenging period. I mean, we came out on the other side, and we're still here 10 years later.

Angela: And then the more we talked about work and about personal life, the more it was ‘mask off’ moments. I feel like I'm 100% ‘mask off’ with you now.

Courtney: We just escalated from there, because then we started to pull each other on everything. So it's after the meeting that somebody says something crazy. It's like, "Why did they say that? I don't understand." Then we would game plan together. I was in the space with another person, knowing "If I'm about to say this, Angela's not going to leave me out in the cold. I know that I'm going to say this and she'll come behind me."

Courtney: I do think we're 100% ‘mask off’ because we'll have the tough conversations like Angela described, but Angela will actually come to me and say, "Courtney, I cry in each of the meetings where I talk about this. As a Black woman, tell me honestly, how does that make you feel when I'm in this space and I cry?" After the Equity Convening, she was like, "When we had the equity circle," she said, "I think I articulated well the reason why I teared up." She teared up because most of the women in the circle were Black, and they said they did not have a person they could lean on. She was like, "I cried because I was so sad that they don't have a person doing this work."

Courtney: So I was like, "No, I think that the team actually was thankful to see your white tears for them, thankful at least that somebody at least thinks it's as bad as we think it is. We'd be crying every day." And I said, "The fact that you're even able to acknowledge or care about how your tears make me feel in a space... You could cry every day. I don't even care now because I know what your tears mean. Every time you cry, you're thinking about how it might impact me, and you're willing to have a conversation with me about it." That changes everything for me.

Angela: I still wish I didn't cry so easily.

Courtney: But the fact that we can talk about it, so our conversations have graduated to this whole other level of pushing each other in spaces. I feel safer when she pushes me on conversations I should have. I know it's coming from a place of love and I don't have to calculate, "Where is this coming from? Is it coming from her whiteness that she's saying I should have this conversation because she doesn't want to have it?" Now, it doesn't matter what she said. I know because we've built a relationship that whatever she's pushing me on, she wants me to grow and she wants me to be better, and I think she feels the same way.

That was the work of building the relationship and giving me the space to take down some of the walls around why white people are actually pushing you in a certain way. In my mind, it's like, "There's an ulterior motive here." So I needed the time to have the wall come down. She, because she wants to be a better human, still stayed in it. We stayed in it and moved forward together.

Caroline: Talk to me about this Equity Convening, because I know that it was a climactic point in your relationship.

Angela: Yeah. There was an equity convening for equity leaders, and the group putting it on had asked Courtney if she would share how Atlanta has moved equity work forward. What Courtney had contributed in that space, how it's embedded into our way of working and our strategic plan—They were impressed with how much faster KIPP Metro Atlanta was moving. Courtney was like, "Yeah, I'd be happy to share, but I want Angela to come because our partnership and her role is an important part of the story." So I kind of weaseled my way into this convening. I was not a member of the equity group. I had looked at the space, so I was very aware that I was going to be one of the only white women in this space and acknowledged that. I was like, "I don't want to throw the dynamic off," especially since so many of the women coming, that is their safe space. That's the only space when they're in community with other Black women, predominantly.

So I tried, entering the space, to be very aware of if I need to leave or step out of conversations, if my presence just as a white woman is going to throw off this vibe, I want to honor that. I think, through conversations during that convening and after Courtney and I shared, it just became so apparent that our dynamic is not the norm. So many of the equity leaders across charter schools in the country are the only Black female on their team, and their peers are not working in partnership with them.

There was a pivotal moment because talent leaders were coming in, and I don't think the group overlap was clearly communicated. You could feel the tension when that realization happened, and it was like, "Oh, wait, our safe space in this community is over and you're about to bring this whole other group of leaders in this space." And, FYI, the majority of those leaders are white. It got quiet, and they [the equity group] were like, "Well, how can we welcome them into this space?"

I raised my hand and was like, "I think someone should welcome the talent leaders, that they're joining this space, acknowledge their whiteness, and acknowledge that as chief talent officers, equity is a huge part of their job and partnership, and how we spend the next day and a half together is critical because their roles serve as gatekeepers. Their teams are in charge of who we hire, how we do performance management, and control compensation. The way their teams design the work can either uphold white supremacy culture or dismantle it. So you need these people to be on your team, and equity needs to be a part of their job. Our charge should be ‘how are you dismantling white supremacy culture from your seat as the talent leader of your organization? Because you are a gatekeeper and you hold an incredible amount of power.’ They need to continue the equity conversation after you all leave because that's their job as chiefs in education." Then I sat down.

Caroline: What happened then?

Angela: Then, they asked me to welcome the talent leaders in. In that moment, I was like, "Okay, I'm a little uncomfortable. I'm the white woman in this space, and I'm going to be the person speaking." But I welcomed the talent leaders, and then Courtney and I got to share our story, and we sat like an old married couple. Other teams have a PowerPoint presentation and handouts. Courtney and I have our cups of tea and a blanket over us, and we're just sitting like a married couple on the couch together just sharing our story.

Courtney: Which was so great.

Angela: After we shared, more and more people kept coming up to us to talk about, "How can we get to the place where you are?" I remember one of the talent leaders, a Black woman, came up and she was like, "I have to be honest. When you stood up and started talking…"... What did she say?

Courtney: She was like, "Who is this white woman dropping bombs?"

Angela: She goes, "But then I heard you and Courtney talk," and she was like, "I just wanted to thank you for the way you welcomed us in, and I'd be really interested in talking to you more about how you can talk to members of my team around the importance of equity being in everybody's job." I think I left that convening feeling even more fired up, "Okay, well, what can I do to say the thing?" I think, with white people, especially white women, a part of it is just not wanting to be uncomfortable.

Angela: I think it's stupid.. You have to talk about race. We are different. Moving around the world looking the way we do impacts every single day… You do have to acknowledge the history and that racism exists. White women are some of the most vocal people about, "Don't talk about critical race theory in school," or, "Don't talk to kids about race. You don't want to make white kids feel bad." I just think that's kind of crap.

Courtney: That's the other thing in our relationship that makes it even easier for me to take down those walls, is it extends past the work. To be in the work for real is to extend to your family and try to make a difference in the next generation inclusive of your own home, and Angela does that. I think after that convening, I was able to look back, like, "Dang, we have grown a really solid friendship." We really do love each other.

Angela: And I left with a commitment to say even more and to call white people on more things and be more vocal. That's my responsibility because it shouldn't be left up to their Black teammates to call them on it.

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Courtney Bell is the Managing Director of Talent at KIPP Metro Atlanta. Growing up in Buford, Georgia, her family emphasized the pursuit of education. After graduating college and earning her master’s, Courtney heard of KIPP through a friend. After learning that the school was founded by a Black woman, she pursued a position at the school. She has been with KIPP for 10 years.

Angela Bond is the Chief Strategy Officer at KIPP Metro Atlanta. Originally from New Hartford, Connecticut, she moved to the DC area for college and to surround herself with more diversity than her hometown. After teaching at a KIPP program in New Orleans, she moved to Atlanta, where she was able to find a position with the Atlanta KIPP program. Angela has been with KIPP for 10 years.

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